ninehertz

1. • Rob Himself
   • Donny says:

     Rob Himself says:

     mike says:

     I'd advise just not bothering to release music at all.

     
     
     Oof. Bad tour?
     
     I'm going out with all guns blazing for my album and a couple of download singles and I don't care how much money I waste!

     
     
     Rob that feeling wears off quickly. Nice while it lasts though!
     
     
     It only needs to last another year or two!
   • [08:14 on 13/10/09]
2. • WickedWesticle
   • 1 dollar doesn't sound right, unless people have been buying 1 song at a time. iTunes do take their cut though.
   • [08:41 on 13/10/09]
3. • Tim Holehouse
   • Yeah not sure where my moneys gone... gonna mail them as I've had friends tell me personally they've bought the record... its a bit weird. Unless maybe they just paid me out. I'm starting to think there must be a better way. Hell knows if I know how though.
   • [12:02 on 13/10/09]
4. • Ollie
   • Fury 76 who put out our EP had major issues with itunes. They knew people who had bought stuff but the account was showing as empty. It resulted in a long debate and product being removed from the site but hopefully it's all fixed now and everything is back up there. It does make me question the fallibility of the digital route though. Maybe, if people agree, get some independent people to purchase a couple fo copies to test it's all working.
     
     Damn good read though Chris and some things to take into account there as I'm still thinking of starting a label with a mate. The debate we seem to be having is the old CD vs vinyl one. We've discussed the obvious route of selling digitally which I think will be a necessity in the future for any label to survive, but does this not make the need for having CDs as a physical product somewhat obsolete...let's face it, if people can buy an album online complete with artwork they can then burn it and print the artwork at home. Vinyl on the opther hand does seem to be making something of a comeback with the added collectable factor plus it's possible to offer up a nicer pacakge with vinyl. It is more expensive to produce even smaller runs but is it more likely to sell than CD format? Maybe people prefer the exclusivity of vinyl...it isn't available for everyone to copy and burn off. Catacomb Records seem to manage though but then they refuse to put their product up for online purchase so maybe this pushes people into a purchase or go without kind of scenario. It does seem that of the newer labels the ones that seem to flourish at the moment are labels like Land O' Smiles and Electric Earth who deal in vinyl exclusively. There is always the option as Podge has done in the past to offer a CD-R with the vinyl copy at a marginally higher cost.
     
     In terms of distribution, most shops won't accept product unless it is properly replicated from a glass master so therefore distribution companies will insist on that. Our EP is out via Code 7/Plastic Head and a quick online search shpws that it is available from online stores around the world...doesn't mean people are buying it as the label have done fuck all promo and all the press we've had is a result of what I've done, but it appears to have run out on Amazon, Play.com...etc so although a distribution company may not offer physical distribution to stores worldwide they may offer worldwide net distribution.
   • [12:09 on 13/10/09]
5. • WickedWesticle
   • Tim Holehouse says:

     Yeah not sure where my moneys gone... gonna mail them as I've had friends tell me personally they've bought the record... its a bit weird. Unless maybe they just paid me out. I'm starting to think there must be a better way. Hell knows if I know how though.
     
     
     How long's it been online Tim? It takes a while for iTunes to report to TuneCore and then a while for them to report to you. I think with our demo it was about 3 months before I saw a report.
   • [13:21 on 13/10/09]
6. • Podge
   • Ollie says:

     but does this not make the need for having CDs as a physical product somewhat obsolete...
     
     No, the CD is still very much popular as you cant sell mp3 at gigs and not everyone wants mp3. CDs are cheaper and people will happily pay more for them
     
     
     Ollie says:

     Vinyl on the opther hand does seem to be making something of a comeback with the added collectable factor plus it's possible to offer up a nicer pacakge with vinyl.
     
     Vinyl isn't making a come back, people just say it is because Isis / sun / whoever like to release 1 copy on a million colours, then stick it on ebay for 10 times the amount they paid for it. trust me, no one wants to collect stuff by unknown bands. all the releases those two had done already had an established fan base.
     
     you are welcome to buy my distro off me to help start up your label, i need the cash
   • [13:28 on 13/10/09]
7. • WickedWesticle
   • Ollie says:

     Damn good read though Chris and some things to take into account there as I'm still thinking of starting a label with a mate...
     
     
     Cheers.
     
     Regarding the digital/CD/vinyl debate it's very complicated.
     
     You could do vinyl only. If you do offer a free download of the album for those that buy it. People will LOVE you for this. They have to hear it as well so you'll have to make it available for streaming somewhere on the net but do it at a low bit rate. So this is kinda not just vinyl only. If you're doing this you might as well do digital as well for those that don't have record players. No probs with missing out CDs this way.
     
     I think I've heard the vinyl industry seems to be growing but I don't have any sources to hand. If you're gonna go this route it's probably gonna be very expensive up front and Donny or Podge probably have some advice. I can guess what it might be though.
     
     I've opted for the everything/all we can afford route. Digital is REALLY cheap and the returns are potentially infinite (obviously not in reality). I went for CDs as well because a lot of reviewers will like them and a lot of people still buy CDs. Spliting the cost between the band I don't think it's a massive expense either. Just gonna have to wait and see how they sell.
     
     I'd like to do vinyl as well but I couldn't chance the hefty cost with being an unknown band at the mo.
     
     Personally I think the ideal is to offer everything. Free to stream, payed downloads, CDs and vinyl. All bases covered. The worst thing to happen for a band trying to sell music is that someone wants to 'consume' (I hate that term) their music but can't because it's not offered in the format they like.
   • [13:42 on 13/10/09]
8. • WickedWesticle
   • Podge says:

     
     Vinyl isn't making a come back, people just say it is because Isis / sun / whoever like to release 1 copy on a million colours, then stick it on ebay for 10 times the amount they paid for it. trust me, no one wants to collect stuff by unknown bands. all the releases those two had done already had an established fan base.
     
     
     
     
     Spot on. Rise Above release limited runs as well that they know they can sell because they're by bands with a dedicated fan base.
   • [13:45 on 13/10/09]
9. • Ollie
   • Definitely food for though. The impression I've been getting is that vinyl is becoming more popular and that the download thing is taking over from CD sales but what do I know at the end of the day. I think the digital thing is a must as it's a source of revenue for very little outlay and one site can be reached from anywhere in the world so it's an obvious choice. One though we did have was to offer up digital sales an go for low runs on CDs to minimise costs. 500 seems to be the minimum for glass mastered replicated products most places and this can be done for around £500. Obviously some of these copies will be needed for promo purposes but the rest could at least be sold at a reasonable price to try and recoup the outlay.
   • [14:08 on 13/10/09]
10. • Podge
    • put it this way, i sold around 200 AHCW CDs in 18 months and 400 Church of misery / Sourvein records in 3 years.
      
      I love AHCW but there is no way on earth they have just as many fans as CoM and Sourvein. the reason they sold was because they were on CD and CD still represents better value for money and is open to a wider range of listeners.
      
      I keep thinking i might upload the entire calculon discography including some unreleased stuff onto itunes or similar just to see what happens.
      
      plus i made lots more money selling the CDs as production, packaging and posting is much cheaper than vinyl.
    • [14:13 on 13/10/09]
11. • Jack
    • Vinyl releases with free download of the tracks is the way I think, I'm probably wrong but from a collectors point of view, the vinyl is a nice product with bigger artwork etc and if the tracks werent given to me for free with the album I'd just find a blog and download them, so the artist might as well make them available for free
    • [14:47 on 13/10/09]
12. • Tim Holehouse
    • Vinyl in europe sells super well and CD's don't think depends on your market.
      Yeah its been on line since March... not feeling good about it... think I've been scammed... bastards!
    • [14:53 on 13/10/09]
13. • Rob Himself
    • I recommend songcastmusic.com as recommended to me by Naomi, Tim. Pretty slack on the uptake, but everything takes a while when you go through someone else.
    • [13:33 on 14/10/09]
14. • Hopkins
    • As a follow up to that excellent blog, are you happy with all the choice you made with regards to distribution and hosting music and all that?
    • [09:23 on 24/02/10]
15. • WickedWesticle
    • Hmm good question. That's got me thinking.
      
      Yes and no.
      
      For digital distribution Record Union were great for price, pushing it to the online stores on time, customer service etc but.... I still haven't had any reports from them. They said it would take about 3 months. It's been just under 4 so I'm not too worried but you have just prompted me to hassle them. I have no idea how much we've sold but I'm gonna guess it will be low.
      
      For selling CDs and t-shits big cartel are great. Posting stuff yourself is a bit of a pain in the arse though. I would recommend buying some scales, buying sheets of stamps and avoiding post office queues.
      
      If I was doing it all again right now I'd probably use Bandcamp for digital and physical sales (they added that recently). I cannot stress how awesome their service is. I would also use a service like Record Union purely to get it onto iTunes/Spotify etc. so people know you're the real deal.
      
      They only major thing I would do differently is contact some labels to see if they were interested in releasing it. Releasing music yourself is easily do-able. Getting good press coverage, gigs etc. is hard, at least it is for me. Right now I'd rather play lots of gigs and not make any money than release my own music, not really make any money (still nowhere near breaking even) and not play many gigs.
      
      Would you be interested in a really detailed write up? I may do one for the blog or just here. I'm happy to give stats on sales/downloads etc. Hit me up if you've got any specific questions as well.
      
    • [11:07 on 24/02/10]
16. • Hopkins
    • a detailed follow-up blog would be great if you have the time, and i'm sure most of the folk off here in bands would benefit from reading it
      
      as an aside, there's a lengthy and interesting topic on the NiN forum started by Trent Reznor about releasing your own music
      
      linked here
    • [11:18 on 24/02/10]
17. • Tim Holehouse
    • Rob Himself says:

      I recommend songcastmusic.com as recommended to me by Naomi, Tim. Pretty slack on the uptake, but everything takes a while when you go through someone else.
      
      
      Funny naomi recomended tunecore too me... I'll look into that maybe... still think its better to have music out on a realy physical format. Vinyl preferably.
    • [12:37 on 24/02/10]
18. • WickedWesticle
    • Hopkins says:

      a detailed follow-up blog would be great if you have the time, and i'm sure most of the folk off here in bands would benefit from reading it
      
      as an aside, there's a lengthy and interesting topic on the NiN forum started by Trent Reznor about releasing your own music
      
      linked here
      
      
      Yeah he's pretty spot on there I reckon. It's a good read.
    • [12:40 on 24/02/10]
19. • Rob Himself
    • I'm going to see if I can get my album out on Shellshock or similar. Worth a bash I reckon, would be nice just to see it in shops.
      
      But yeah, Bigcartel and Zimbalam are my main recommendations for doing it yourself.
    • [12:47 on 24/02/10]
20. • sean
    • Could you let me know how you get on with Shellshock
    • [13:16 on 24/02/10]

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