ninehertz

1. • WickedWesticle
   • Some people do buy records though. And some people buy downloads. Some people like to stream stuff through last.fm and you can collect royalties from that as well. I say offer all those possibilities, it is the year 2008 after all.
     
     Artwork can be a pain. For our first demo our old guitarist did it and it took him bloody ages (looked cool though). It annoyed the hell outa me. I did our last two so I knew it would be on my timescale. It can be time consuming so you have to know you can rely on the person you are working with to deliver on time.
     
     I spoke to a pal of mine who runs a fairly well known underground label and even though the bands are getting a fair amount of press coverage they are selling very small amounts of CDs - lots less than 500. I was really surprised with some of them as I just assumed they would be selling thousands cos they were in all the right magazines. I reckon small runs to start and split releases is a good way to go. I'm not keen on the idea of limited runs though. Nothing wrong with an initial run of 50 and then more if there is demand.
     
     I know this has been covered but you do need to get bands that are willing to promote themselves on and off stage. They have to do a lot of the work and they have to understand that as well. And it's not just mindlessly adding bands on MySpace.
   • [00:30 on 19/12/08]
2. • Catacomb Records
   • We sell alot of ours on our online store and through independent stores... don't even bother with big stores, a mates had one of our CDs on order in HMV since April and they still dont have it in, even though PHD have 20 copies!!! But, it is cool when you see a release of yours in the shops and for the little amount we pay percentage wise for the priviledge... why not!!
     
     We've only put our own money into the compilation. The Aluna / Sonic Lord / forthcoming Queen Elephantine releases were paid for from the compilation sales. We can't afford to release more than 2 / 3 a year but that's cool, just wish we could get less than 500 runs!!
   • [08:48 on 19/12/08]
3. • Ollie
   • I think if we decide to go with this we may go the same sort of route as Catacomb as they seem to be doing things pretty right at the minute. The only difference is that we'll probably look at digital sales as well as that is going to be a huge part of a label's revenue in the future. Our EP on Fury 76 is available on a shit load of web sites world wide but also for download on itunes, napster, Rhapsody, emusic, Amazon...etc. We would go for quality releases, probably 500 copies so we can set aside 100 to send out for promo and attempt to flog the other 400. The good thing is between us and the other band we're considering doing a split with we know for certain we can shift 100 copies so that will make our money back, anything on top of that will be profit to go back into the label. Plus I know that us and the other band do put a shit load of effort into promotion anyway.
   • [08:58 on 19/12/08]
4. • Mazz
   • I think you smoke a tasty bong and eat some cheese.
   • [09:13 on 19/12/08]
5. • Ollie
   • Mazz says:

     I think you smoke a tasty bong and eat some cheese.
     
     
     I do like cheese
   • [09:34 on 19/12/08]
6. • Podge
   • did some one say recession?
     
     did some one say luxury goods sales are falling?
     
     did some one say its a good time to be doing this sort of thing?
     
     you asked for advice, we gave it. on your own head be it. you are making it all sound very simple in light of everyone who's run a label saying its difficult.
     
     me, i'm gonna sit back, relax and watch some one else's life be taken over by sitting for hours on end at the computer and stood in post office lines.
   • [10:49 on 19/12/08]
7. • Ollie
   • Podge says:

     
     me, i'm gonna sit back, relax and watch some one else's life be taken over by sitting for hours on end at the computer and stood in post office lines.
     
     
     I do that anyway, may as well keep doing it
     
     We're under no illusions about this and aren't going to go into it blind. We're well aware of the risk of losing money and the amount of hard work involved. Fortunately we have 3-4 intelligent guys to share the workload and a lot of combined experience of doing music at various levels. We're also pretty confident that, with the first release we have in mind we can make our money back...after that it could all go tits up.
     
     The thing is there is absolutely no guarantees with anything in life. Just because it hasn't worked out so well for other people doen't mean it automatically won't work out for us. On the other hand it could turn into a horrible mess but if we don't give it a go then we'll never know and if people don't take risks and try to do new things then nothing will ever improve...there will be no new music out there so people have to keep pushing. If everyone gives up then the recession will take over but fuck it, it's worth a punt we can only prove you right or wrong.
     [Edited by Ollie at 11:18 on 19/12/08]
   • [10:54 on 19/12/08]
8. • Rob Himself
   • Podge says:

     did some one say recession?
     
     did some one say luxury goods sales are falling?
     
     did some one say its a good time to be doing this sort of thing?
     
     
     
     
     One nil!
   • [12:56 on 19/12/08]
9. • Podge
   • haha, its not a fight but with hindsight i just see it as a bit of a silly idea to be honest both in terms of the current climate and in the way that music sales are going in relation to time / effort / money put into them.
     
     like i say, if that's what you want to do then do it but i cant see it being a good idea and that's why I'm shutting up shop once these new releases are out.
   • [13:06 on 19/12/08]
10. • Ollie
    • Absolutely, it ain't a competition and I've certainly taken on board a lot of comments here and it's given me plenty to think about but as Podge said, it's up to me and my mate if we want to persue this. As long as we go in with realistic expectations we can only give it a go, if it blows up in our faces it's a lesson learned, if it goes well then bonus!!!
    • [14:08 on 19/12/08]
11. • Sheldon
    • ill do split releases with you ollie if you start up
      
      what kinda stuff are you gonna release stoner doom stuff?
      
      
    • [14:15 on 19/12/08]
12. • Ollie
    • Sheldon says:

      ill do split releases with you ollie if you start up
      
      what kinda stuff are you gonna release stoner doom stuff?
      
      
      
      
      Cool. We're pretty open I think. Initially we have a couple of bands lined up (obviously one is Grifter) for a split release but after that...if it goes well, who knows. It'll be the more metal end of things I guess but the key thing is to have bands that have a cool sound, write some great songs and have a good work ethic. My personal tastes run to more stoner, doom, psych, 70's kind of stuff but as long as the bands ain't cocks and we like them...who knows.
      
      You never know, we may not get past the first release!!!
    • [15:29 on 19/12/08]
13. • ChrisSD
    • Hello all, thought I better have a say an' all...
      
      Erm, I do have the patience of a saint. That's not me being big headed. I just have to. Sons Of Alpha Centauri's debut album took a year from me having the master audio and artwork to having the finished CD in our hands. And even then, after painstaking artwork problems (and I mean painful - at points I'd have preferred to stick pins into my own eyes), the art came out slightly wrong, and we discovered that the pressing plant had outsourced a part of the manufacturing to another company who had different templates and both companies hadn't realized this. After much bullying I got credit, but still...
      
      Like A Kind Of Matador/Slomatics split 12" has taken roughly 2 years from agreement to having all the pieces together now. And, even now, we're having to tweak the artwork. And that's before we start tweaking it with the manufacturers.
      
      We 'signed' Monster Killed By Laser in our first batch of bands over 3 years ago now. They still haven't entered the studio to record the album. But as it'll be their debut, despite forming in the late 80's you can't call it surprising!
      
      Your time will be totally sucked up. Bands will not understand the release process. Bands will split up. Bands wont push the release nearly as hard as they should. Bands wont work as hard as they should, still thinking of it as a 'hobby' or thinking what they're doing IS working hard.
      
      You will get screwed over. You will have sleepless nights (I'm not being melodramatic). You will know your local postman and Post Office workers more than your own friends and family. Bands will get upset with you. You may hemorrage money. People don't buy CDs anymore. People hate postal prices. Postal prices are horrible. The postal system is unreliable. Couriers are expensive. Couriers are unreliable. People don't buy standard 'there you go' vinyl releases anymore. People sometimes download, but they'll take the illegal route 99% of the time if they can find it.
      
      Don't believe that Myspace and Facebook are the amazing tools you might think they are, and that they are going to help you sell lots more copies than you might expect if they didn't exist. You know why? Because every other fucker out there has the same idea, and people who like music are literally SWAMPED with adverts telling them they neeeed a certain release, or that their shop has a sale on, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum!
      
      PR is a nightmare. Booking gigs is a nightmare. Advertizing is a nightmare. Storage is a nightmare. Distribution is a nightmare. You will fill out many, many forms. You might meet scary contracts. You might be faced with a crisis of principles.
      
      Is SD worth it? Yes. I love it. But then again, I don't have a life, as SD is my life. Anyone who thinks that's sad can get fucked. I don't have a job. I do SD full time (and I do mean FUUUUULL time - typical day for me begins at 10am and ends about now - 2am). Helen does a badly paid job and she just got fired. We live very, very, very simply. We actually think about SD when we go to the supermarket. It's taken our relationship to the brink a while back. It's estranged us from our friends and family at times. But we carry on doing it because we love music, our bands, quality packaged releases and I guess we're mad enough to love the experience too!
      
      Is it worth it for you guys? Depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to release really close mates' bands and you and they don't mind admitting that a 200 CDR press is reasonable and as hard as you want to push it, then you can have a fun time. If you don't have many pretentions, no worries. If you don't mind losing a bit of money because you LOVE an album or a band, then you'll be OK too.
      
      SD has pretentions. I won't lie. I want to stick around. I don't want a 'hit' record (!), but I do want to move forwards with bigger artists, better packages, better website, better everything. I want SD to be thought of in similar circles as Hydra Head, Robotic Empire, Level Plane, Conspiracy, etc, in 5-10 years time. We have - to date - released 20 CDs, 4 LPs & 3 2xLPs since May 2006, and our second release (Flatlands - 'Vermuyden' came out about 5 months after that. Am I ridiculously ambitious? Yes. Am I completely mad? Fuck yes!
      
      I kind of hope this has been at least insightful, if possibly not helpful. I say go for it mate. Don't commit to too much. See how it goes with 2 or 3 releases. Do splits with bands you know pretty well. I wouldn't do EPs. From personal experience I've seen this as a dying format really, even over only 3 years. I'm not really touching them anymore unless I fall in love with the band. If you want to do something other than a split, have the balls to do an album.
      
      Don't be tempted by the £100 more for 1000 copies. Stick to 500. 500 is a LOT of copies man. Come to my house and look in my loft to know that you will have CDs lying around forever if you get suckered into those deals. A lot of places may actually quote you a cheaper price for 1000 than 500! Fuck it man, pay a little more for less copies. I know it sounds mad, but take it from me, your house will start to look like cardboard-box city if you take them up on it only a few times.
      [Edited by ChrisSD at 02:51 on 20/12/08]
    • [02:43 on 20/12/08]
14. • feastoftentacles
    • I agree with chris 500 copies - if it sells quick do a repress.
      
      Also trade - it's the lifesblood of the DIY scene.
    • [08:33 on 20/12/08]
15. • Podge
    • i think the big difference here is that Chris has started a label, while a lot of us are just releasing a few records.
    • [10:57 on 20/12/08]
16. • MatthewRedStars
    • "Bands wont work as hard as they should, still thinking of it as a 'hobby'"
      
      Doing a band is a hobby. Doing a label is a hobby. Obscure niche metal is a hobby. Expecting this scene to earn you a living is just as bizarre to me as the bands who think they're gonna make it "big".
      
      To me its the same as any hobby, the money lost is the price of fun. The same as fishing, or sunday league football, or painting, or travelling, or restoring cars etc.
      
      
    • [14:04 on 20/12/08]
17. • Podge
    • totally agree with that, but its lost its fun for me now.
    • [16:34 on 20/12/08]
18. • Sheldon
    • im put so little effort into mine i dont really think about it anymore
      
      should be a bit more pro active
    • [18:17 on 20/12/08]
19. • Ollie
    • Cheers guys, this is all useful stuff.
      
      I don't think we have any delusions of grandeur. We're not about to go and sign a dozen bands to do 5 albums each or anything like that. We're going to start with one good quality release and take it from there...test the water so to speak. I think the realistic aim would be to put out maybe 3-4 good releases a year so we can afford to do decent packages and some decent promo...that's obviously dependent on finding that many decent bands to work with. It could well be that we don't find anyone that really pops our nads so we don't release that much. It will definitely be a hobby for us and not a get rich scheme, we all have decent jobs but a passion for music that borders on insanity.
      
      Wish us luck
    • [10:19 on 23/12/08]
20. • Tim Holehouse
    • Sheldon says:

      ill do split releases with you ollie if you start up
      
      what kinda stuff are you gonna release stoner doom stuff?
      
      
      
      
      Dude you still in for my thing? No worries if not, but if you are will need your label logo soon.
    • [15:09 on 23/12/08]

Forums - Music Discussion and Promotion - Any advice from labels on starting up?