ninehertz

1. • Podge
   • OK, i'm gonna come in for some flack for this but I'd honestly like to know more on the subject however most of what i can find seems to be slightly romanticized in favour of the "working class hero" image of the miners or is just blatant anti Thatcher.
     
     does anyone know where I can read up on some stuff from the police / politician / Nottinghamshire miners side?
   • [19:36 on 06/03/09]
2. • noone
   • I was just about to post a Sheffield indymedia article about the anniversary of the strikes only to find it had been removed.
     worrying?
     Maybe it was a little contradictory for the wet liberals to have an article about the left supporting the miners and a shit load of anti-coal mining actions on the same web page?
   • [20:22 on 06/03/09]
3. • mike
   • I saw a miner on the news tonight who wouldn't shake a policeman's hand on air tonight because of the battle of Orgreave, now I know the police charged the miners on horseback and caused injuries to some, but SY police paid out compensation a while back and although it is still a fact that it happened, I thought the 25 years I've been alive (I was born 4 months after) maybe differences could be finally put aside.
     
     I don't know if what we hear today is as you say Podge, a romantic view, as far as my limited knowlege of coal mining goes, surely there was a reason for mines needing to be closed, the miner on the news said "I can't forgive him, because he helped put 100,000 on the dole".
     
     Really? Or was he just trying to do his job, just like you? It annoyed me to be honest, he seemed bitter out of choice.
   • [23:08 on 06/03/09]
4. • Laddeth
   • mike says:

     I saw a miner on the news tonight who wouldn't shake a policeman's hand on air tonight because of the battle of Orgreave
     
     There was a similar thing on our local news but the old fella was saying that he would still punch a "scab" if he ever met one.
     
     I'm sure there will be a couple of pits that are now museums that will have answers to your questions Podge if you ever fancied a day trip.
     I'm sure there will be one or two up here aswell. More research needed I fell.
     
     Seeing what some of the pit villages/towns up here have become in recent times though (Scotton springs to mind), it really didnt turn out well for the miners so to be honest they have my sympathys.
     From my VERY limited knowledge on the subject, I believe it was a mixture of the privitisation culture of the time and cheaper coal from elsewhere that tolled the death of British mining.
   • [23:39 on 06/03/09]
5. • noone
   • How could you honestly ever forgive a scab or a pig ?
     It'd be like asking you to shake hands with the man who raped your family and burnt your house down.
     
     "After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."
     
     "A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."
     
     "When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."
     
     "No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.
     
     "Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army." The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.
     
     Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class." Jack London (1876-1916)
     
     
     [Edited by noone at 05:55 on 07/03/09]
   • [05:53 on 07/03/09]
6. • Chesney Christ
   • The cops got paid a healthy overtime rate to 'supervise' the strikes - there's plenty of TV footage of them waving bundles of notes at striking miners who were struggling to feed their families. That's not just doing your job, it's - to paraphrae the MC5 - being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
     
     Despite only being about 7 at the time of the strikes, it definitely entered my consciousness - I remember crying to my mum as my Dad (then a shop steward for the NUT) was picketing somewhere, & I was convinced the police would beat him up - because that's what happened to strikers on TV EVERY NIGHT (I was too young to distinguish between a striking miner & the somewhat safer position of a striking teacher at the time).
     
     "The enemy within" etc... people (rightly) moan about the current government's authoritarian tendencies, but they have nothing on the last lot.
     [Edited by Chesney Christ at 07:49 on 07/03/09]
   • [07:49 on 07/03/09]
7. • mike
   • I think 25 years is enough time to forgive someone, yes it was unpleasant, but tarring a whole group of people as being problematic is surely wrong? I'm sure there were police that had friends and family who were miners, and miners the same.
     
     This just reminds me of the school strike we have in Barnsley at the moment, theres teachers striking and the NUT spokesman is being incredibly offensive to supply teachers who are keeping the schools open, never mind that they have denied children of primary school age of education since September, forced parents to pay childcare fees or take time off work etc. he even called them scabs, which I thought was just pathetic.
   • [11:06 on 07/03/09]
8. • MatthewRedStars
   • For me the Miners Strike was a beginning of start of a bad time for the country... one we're still feeling now and probably for ever. I see this is the disaffected youth, record amounts of anti-depressents prescribed, bail outs for banks while milllions of jobs are lost in manufacturing. The movement from 'real work' to a service industry.... and the movement from pride and ENGAGEMENT with life and community and work to earning your wage packet, going home and locking the doors, and cursing the people trying to make life better, while worshipping the destruction of any stake they could have in their own lives.
     
     It was a demonstration of Thatchers desire to destroy 'community'. Fuck your neighbours, fuck your collegues, fuck everyone but yourself, privatise everything.. who gives a shit if the pensioner on your street no longer has a train service to see her family... buy your house, no money? get credit! trouble at work, cross that picket line! Who cares if your work mate got sacked, buy a new telly on credit and keep your mouth fucking shut.
     
     The echoes are still felt now. Hello, New Labour.
     
     She won, now there is no chance the country will ever be run for the benefit of the people. Everyone i know is struggling for money, struggling to get a single holiday a work. Fuck those people. They don't count for shit.
     
     
   • [11:54 on 07/03/09]
9. • Big Si
   • To play devil's advocate, though, where would we be now if the unions had been allowed to keep holding the country to ransom to prop up outdated and dying industries? Surely there comes a time when people have to accept that the world has changed and jobs can't be maintained artificially.
     
     I don't agree for one minute with how the miner's strike was handled by the police or government, before anyone kicks off. Trying to spur some proper debate is all. I broadly agree with Matt, but I think the rot set in before Thatcher.
   • [12:55 on 07/03/09]
10. • Podge
    • i'll openly admit that i'm no expert on all this but i cant see why people put so much on Thatcher. Yes what she said was wrong but then everyone voted them back in time and time again.
      
      if she didn't strike a chord with people then how did she get away with it? were all the other options even worse? i don't know, its not something that has interested me before so i'm lacking in information on all this.
    • [16:25 on 07/03/09]
11. • theadore
    • Scargill: Kinnock would have won had he supported the miners.
      [Edited by theadore at 17:21 on 07/03/09]
    • [17:20 on 07/03/09]
12. • sabbathfan
    • Podge says:

      
      
      if she didn't strike a chord with people then how did she get away with it? were all the other options even worse? i don't know, its not something that has interested me before so i'm lacking in information on all this.
      
      
      The outdated first past the post electoral system we have helped her win the 1983 election, true the Tories got the largest share of the votes cast [40% or something] but that still means 60% of the electorate didn't agree
      
      same with the 2005 election, New Labour only got 21% of the vote but it was still the biggest single share of all the votes cast
      
      FPTP may have been all right in the Victorian times but it's very crude and outdated today - proportional representation is the way forward.
    • [18:57 on 07/03/09]
13. • the chap
    • i followed new model army during the miners strike, collected for the striking miners families but being from notts came in for a lot of flack because of the UDM, got stopped numerous times as they thought we were flying pickets - even though we couldnt sing a note! - yorks/notts games still have the scab chant...had loads of mates working at pits in and around nottingham but not for much longer, thatcher killed the british mining industry.period.
      25 years ago...
      i think there are only 7 actual coal mines still producing today
      also scargill wasnt as aginast the govt as most people wanted him to think...
      [Edited by the chap at 21:09 on 07/03/09]
    • [21:08 on 07/03/09]
14. • noone
    • this popped up on indymedia today.
      Don't know if they'll leave it up.
    • [13:07 on 09/03/09]
15. • Podge
    • cheers, i'll check it out when i get back from work
    • [13:32 on 09/03/09]
16. • noone
    • there's plenty of suggested reading in the comments box under the article as well as a repost of the original removed piece.
    • [16:07 on 09/03/09]
17. • Tom P
    • I totally agree with Matt too. The knock-on effects on society from the move to service-based mass employment rather than industry is the real kick in the nuts. Being from Maltby, a village that once had a high rate of employment and a healthy community and now has more smackheads than any other town in the borough and several estates I wouldn't walk through at night, really shows this in full effect. Nobody cares about anything anymore, nobody gives a shit about politics or the law they just vote labour and don't think about a thing.
      
      There's no work, half the town just ride the bus out of town to the nearest callcentres to earn minimum wage doing monkey work, and I might add that these insitutions aren't solid either, I wouldn't put it past Ventura or other such ballbag organisations to up sticks and move somewhere cheaper if the credit crunch hit them hard enough. There's already been craploads of job losses due to the crunch, I lost my job due to my employer going bust last month, luckily I'm sorted again now, but when I went to sign on on a Saturday (yes it appears the only people working overtime are Jobcentre staff and debt collectors), the place was packed like sardines. It's fucking bullshit.
      
      [Edited by Tom P at 18:21 on 09/03/09]
    • [18:13 on 09/03/09]
18. • Laddeth
    • My Strike
      I've not watched it but just noticed it on iPlayer.
      Not sure how biased it'll be...
    • [22:47 on 10/03/09]

Forums - General Chat - The Miner's Strike